Maxx 6s? Or leave it alone?

[KnowAir]

I do have a spare BLX185 laying around. Max8 seems like a good option though. I'm just using a take off VXL-6 from a UDR

Does the BLX have the right connectors for your needs? If not, might have to hone your soldering skills? I'd give the blx a shot if it were me. Or, reduce your pinion... up to you my man. I will say though, knowing how to solder will never hurt ya. IMO it's an invaluable skill in this hobby.

 

[Armarookie43]

This might be the OP best option. Not sure why LVC needs to be changed tho?
I would just look for an rtr 150esc from JRC or elsewhere myself. Looks like the max8 is going for about $130. Should be able to find a WP-8bl150 for under $100.

I'm still milking the stock esc in my Xmaxx. I see jrc has the Spektrum 8s for $154. Not bad but I'll go max6 before Spektrum for same price give or take..

You need to adjust the LVC to manual mode. The Max 8, Max 6 and Max 5 and even my XLX2 were all draining my batteries to well below 3V on at least one cell. I had to adjust all those ESCS manually so that they would stop doing that. The factory Auto lipo DOES NOT work properly. I learned that the hard way. By damaging a whole bunch of lipos. Trust me. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but all these ESCS need to be calibrated and adjusted accordingly. It only took me like 2 years and like a few lipos to figure that out

I do have a spare BLX185 laying around. Max8 seems like a good option though. I'm just using a take off VXL-6 from a UDR

BLX 185 is fine. That would not stutter or cog. It's your Traxxas ESC that is causing that issue. Been there done that. I use shoe goo underneath my ESCS to glue them to my chassis on my rigs BTW

 

[KnowAir]

You need to adjust the LVC to manual mode. The Max 8, Max 6 and Max 5 and even my XLX2 were all draining my batteries to well below 3V on at least one cell. I had to adjust all those ESCS manually so that they would stop doing that. The factory Auto lipo DOES NOT work properly. I learned that the hard way. By damaging a whole bunch of lipos. Trust me. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but all these ESCS need to be calibrated and adjusted accordingly. It only took me like 2 years and like a few lipos to figure that out

BLX 185 is fine. That would not stutter or cog. It's your Traxxas ESC that is causing that issue. Been there done that. I use shoe goo underneath my ESCS to glue them to my chassis on my rigs BTW

Oh snap! I haven't heard that about the HW max esc's! I believe what you're saying,just haven't heard bout it..I'm running a max6 in my kexb. TBH, I think I turned LVC to OFF since I like to run on 5s..
The auto mode on the esc is auto detect..as in how many cells are in the connected battery.
LVC is actually a different item in the programming menu. I think 3.2 volt is default? I can't remember..either way, that's good information. Thanks @Armarookie43

 

[Armarookie43]

Oh snap! I haven't heard that about the HW max esc's! I believe what you're saying,just haven't heard bout it..I'm running a max6 in my kexb. TBH, I think I turned LVC to OFF since I like to run on 5s..
The auto mode on the esc is auto detect..as in how many cells are in the connected battery.
LVC is actually a different item in the programming menu. I think 3.2 volt is default? I can't remember..either way, that's good information. Thanks @Armarookie43

Whatever it is it doesn't work right, which damages your lipo long term or even short term. Your batteries puff, get too hot, and then you have to go get another one. Yeah, just a heads up. No need to damage your lipos like that. I found that out when I checked each cell on my lipos after I hit LVC. The battery was very hot and one of my cells was like at 2.5V. Guess what? That $180 battery is damaged now. And it was only like 3 months old I believe. It also puffed. After adjusting things manually, (set cut off to high and cell count to 8s on my Max 5 esc), that doesn't happen anymore. Yeah my run time gets cut off a bit, but that is better than lipo damage

 

[Yazman]

The BLX185 has way smaller motor connectors, so yeah, I'd have to solder some bigger ones to match the motor. I'm somewhat confident I could do it. I'm good with small gauge stuff, bigger a bit more difficult for me.

Nice heads up about the Max ESCs

 

[Armarookie43]

The BLX185 has way smaller motor connectors, so yeah, I'd have to solder some bigger ones to match the motor. I'm somewhat confident I could do it. I'm good with small gauge stuff, bigger a bit more difficult for me.

Nice heads up about the Max ESCs

Go ahead and do that. Way better than buying a whole ESC . The XLX2 and MMX8S had to be tweaked too in order for the LVC to work correctly.

 

[KnowAir]

Go ahead and do that. Way better than buying a whole ESC . The XLX2 and MMX8S had to be tweaked too in order for the LVC to work correctly.

I've got 2 3s goldbats out of 4 that are puffing and dropping out as soon as I put a load on them..hmm, could it be the LVC? Idk, my Zeee batteries are fine and they're actually older with more cycles on them so? Think I'm done buying the Goldbats from Amazon.

 

[L3phturn]

Whatever it is it doesn't work right, which damages your lipo long term or even short term. Your batteries puff, get too hot, and then you have to go get another one. Yeah, just a heads up. No need to damage your lipos like that. I found that out when I checked each cell on my lipos after I hit LVC. The battery was very hot and one of my cells was like at 2.5V. Guess what? That $180 battery is damaged now. And it was only like 3 months old I believe. It also puffed. After adjusting things manually, (set cut off to high and cell count to 8s on my Max 5 esc), that doesn't happen anymore. Yeah my run time gets cut off a bit, but that is better than lipo damage

I think you misunderstand how LVC works. The ESC can only see the total voltage from the pack or packs, it can’t see cell voltage. So if you set LVC at 3.0 the ESC measures the total voltage at startup and calculates how many cells there are, then multiplies the 3.0v LVC setting by the number of cells. LVC set at 3.0 with a 3S means LVC is 9.0v total pack voltage. If you have one bad cell in a pack that is dropping below 3.0v under load it is going to get damaged, but that is down to a pack with a bad cell, that’s not an LVC problem. If your packs are getting hot and puffing it is likely that your setup and gearing is drawing more power than those batteries can handle and that is damaging your cells, not the LVC setting. If you set your LVC to a higher number like 3.4v it will work just fine, and if LVC is kicking in “early” it is likely there is a bad cell dropping so much under load that the total voltage hits LVC. If you want to avoid damaging your batteries you are better off to set LVC higher and then run cheap voltage alarms on your balance leads while you are running. Those alarms on the balance leads DO see individual cell voltage so if you set those alarms to 2.9v if it alarms you gave a cell dropping that low under load. When it beeps stop the truck and immediately view the voltage on each cell with the alarm/tester and find the lowest voltage cell. It won’t be at 2.9 v when you stop but that should tell you which cell is dropping under load.

The net of it is that LVC works fine unless your batteries already have one or more damaged cells. It’s not the LVC causing the damage, that is down to batteries that can’t handle the current demands and conditions you are subjecting them to.

This Goldbatts - what are the specs on them? How do you charge them? How long after fully charging do you let the, sit before running them? Are you always setting them to storage charge right after using them? Do you have a voltage checker that can measure internal resistance?

 

[Yazman]

Would swapping a VXL-8 from my Xmaxx help (I have one laying around)? I know someone said it didn't help though

 

[KnowAir]

This Goldbatts - what are the specs on them? How do you charge them? How long after fully charging do you let the, sit before running them? Are you always setting them to storage charge right after using them? Do you have a voltage checker that can measure internal resistance?

The Golbatt I am referring to are 5200mah 50c. Charging with duratrash onyx and generic sky rc balance chargers. Typically no starage charge, they may set for a couple hours or straight into the rig off the charger. No ir or balance checkers here. Honestly, I can't justify all that. I just toss em and buy some more cnhl or zeee.
I store them at anywhere between the nominal voltage to 1 volt over nominal per pack not cell.

 

[L3phturn]

The Golbatt I am referring to are 5200mah 50c. Charging with duratrash onyx and generic sky rc balance chargers. Typically no starage charge, they may set for a couple hours or straight into the rig off the charger. No ir or balance checkers here. Honestly, I can't justify all that. I just toss em and buy some more cnhl or zeee.
I store them at anywhere between the nominal voltage to 1 volt over nominal per pack not cell.

You should always be storage charging them after use. It's not the nominal pack voltage that is important is is balancing the cells for storage. If you have one cell getting weak then you could be storing them with 1 cell far too low. I assume those chargers have a storage charge setting? If you storage charge them it will charge or discharge as needed and balance the cells. The individual cell voltage is what matters not the pack voltage. If you go off of pack voltage only you can easily have one cell high and one low and have that situation keep getting worse over time.

Get one of these: https://www.amazon.ca/CellMeter-7-Digital-Battery-Capacity-Controller/dp/B0744LVX76/

$16 Canadian. They will even balance the cells for you as well as let you check IR. If you pull a pack out after running one of your rigs, just check it. If the cell voltages are somewhere around 3.7-3.8v you are fine as long as they are all fairly close. If any cell is below 3.7v I would storage charge them. If the cells are over 3.8 then I would also storage charge if your charger will discharge and balance to 3.7. If not, let that cheap meter run it's balance and get them all even. If you need to discharge them a bit then do so, but store them with all the cells fairly well balanced. If you have a pack that isn't balancing easily and has a cell that tends to be lower (or higher) then use the meter to check internal resistance.

But yes based on what you said, those packs are toast. I would get better ones with a higher C rating. Those C ratings are usually inaccurate but with a quality supplier like CHNL or Zeee higher C rating is usually better. Those Goldbatts aren't able to handle the loads you are putting on them. I have some HRB batteries that I can't run in my 6S rigs without them getting too hot, but they work fine as individual 3S packs in the smaller rigs we have.

 

[KnowAir]

You should always be storage charging them after use. It's not the nominal pack voltage that is important is is balancing the cells for storage. If you have one cell getting weak then you could be storing them with 1 cell far too low. I assume those chargers have a storage charge setting? If you storage charge them it will charge or discharge as needed and balance the cells. The individual cell voltage is what matters not the pack voltage. If you go off of pack voltage only you can easily have one cell high and one low and have that situation keep getting worse over time.

Get one of these: https://www.amazon.ca/CellMeter-7-Digital-Battery-Capacity-Controller/dp/B0744LVX76/

$16 Canadian. They will even balance the cells for you as well as let you check IR. If you pull a pack out after running one of your rigs, just check it. If the cell voltages are somewhere around 3.7-3.8v you are fine as long as they are all fairly close. If any cell is below 3.7v I would storage charge them. If the cells are over 3.8 then I would also storage charge if your charger will discharge and balance to 3.7. If not, let that cheap meter run it's balance and get them all even. If you need to discharge them a bit then do so, but store them with all the cells fairly well balanced. If you have a pack that isn't balancing easily and has a cell that tends to be lower (or higher) then use the meter to check internal resistance.

But yes based on what you said, those packs are toast. I would get better ones with a higher C rating. Those C ratings are usually inaccurate but with a quality supplier like CHNL or Zeee higher C rating is usually better. Those Goldbatts aren't able to handle the loads you are putting on them. I have some HRB batteries that I can't run in my 6S rigs without them getting too hot, but they work fine as individual 3S packs in the smaller rigs we have.

I supect the c ratings are indeed too low for the usage I'm subjecting them to..with regard to cell balancing,are the cells in a pack not wired together in series? If one cell is higher than another,they should balance out since they are indeed connected to each other?

 

[L3phturn]

I supect the c ratings are indeed too low for the usage I'm subjecting them to..with regard to cell balancing,are the cells in a pack not wired together in series? If one cell is higher than another,they should balance out since they are indeed connected to each other?

"Should" being the operative term, but when a cell starts to get damaged it develops higher internal resistance than the other cells, meaning it won't balance properly. If the cells auto-balanced automatically as you would expect we wouldn't need to balance charge them, but internal resistance and the pack connections always have resistance so cells can get out of balance and stay that way. The reason to always balance the pack when both charging and storing is to try to keep those imbalances minimized. It's not the main reason your packs went bad, but it is likely they died faster due to not being balanced at storage voltage.

 

[KnowAir]

"Should" being the operative term, but when a cell starts to get damaged it develops higher internal resistance than the other cells, meaning it won't balance properly. If the cells auto-balanced automatically as you would expect we wouldn't need to balance charge them, but internal resistance and the pack connections always have resistance so cells can get out of balance and stay that way. The reason to always balance the pack when both charging and storing is to try to keep those imbalances minimized. It's not the main reason your packs went bad, but it is likely they died faster due to not being balanced at storage voltage.

Understood, makes sense what you've said.
As to the storage charge, if I run my packs to lvc(or below nominal) I do put them on balance charge until they are roughly 1 to 1.5 volt over the pack's nominal rating. Should be good there.
The reason I don't use the actual storage setting on my chargers is that they only output 1 amp, and from lvc to storage state takes hours.. I respect what you're saying, and can agree that's the proper way.

 

[L3phturn]

Understood, makes sense what you've said.
As to the storage charge, if I run my packs to lvc(or below nominal) I do put them on balance charge until they are roughly 1 to 1.5 volt over the pack's nominal rating. Should be good there.
The reason I don't use the actual storage setting on my chargers is that they only output 1 amp, and from lvc to storage state takes hours.. I respect what you're saying, and can agree that's the proper way.

The problem is that most chargers don't balance cell voltage until the very end of the charging cycle. So if it is balance charging with a 4.2v per cell target and you stop it based on the overall pack voltage you aren't balancing the cells. If you get them close to 3.7v then put them on storage charge and it shouldn't take long to balance them. Are you sure it will only charge at 1 amp or it will only discharge at 1 amp - because the discharge is the slower part for the chargers I have. The long time it takes to storage charge is because the cells are not balancing properly because they are damaged I suspect. Storage charging doesn't take long. I set my LVC setting high enough that when I hit LVC under load the cells are usually 3.5-3.7 anyway so a storage charge doesn't take nearly as long as charging to full to run.

When you get some new batteries, storage charge them every time when you are done so the cells are balanced at the proper voltage. It will prevent damage in the future. With the batteries being properly maintained the storage charging process won't take long and it's after you are done anyway so it's not like you have to wait around for it.

 

[KnowAir]

The problem is that most chargers don't balance cell voltage until the very end of the charging cycle. So if it is balance charging with a 4.2v per cell target and you stop it based on the overall pack voltage you aren't balancing the cells. If you get them close to 3.7v then put them on storage charge and it shouldn't take long to balance them. Are you sure it will only charge at 1 amp or it will only discharge at 1 amp - because the discharge is the slower part for the chargers I have. The long time it takes to storage charge is because the cells are not balancing properly because they are damaged I suspect. Storage charging doesn't take long. I set my LVC setting high enough that when I hit LVC under load the cells are usually 3.5-3.7 anyway so a storage charge doesn't take nearly as long as charging to full to run.

When you get some new batteries, storage charge them every time when you are done so the cells are balanced at the proper voltage. It will prevent damage in the future. With the batteries being properly maintained the storage charging process won't take long and it's after you are done anyway so it's not like you have to wait around for it.

Good ideas, thanks! I will indeed try that. Fast charge to get them up quicker and then a storage charge
I'll have to revisit the storage charge menu, but am pretty sure they only put out 1a..
My chargers are literally the cheapest I could find, the sky rc knockoffs were $25 a piece
Through all my redneck backwards practices, the Zee batts are still holding up much better, same specs as the Golbatts so I will still not be buying anymore of those.

 

[Armarookie43]

I think you misunderstand how LVC works. The ESC can only see the total voltage from the pack or packs, it can’t see cell voltage. So if you set LVC at 3.0 the ESC measures the total voltage at startup and calculates how many cells there are, then multiplies the 3.0v LVC setting by the number of cells. LVC set at 3.0 with a 3S means LVC is 9.0v total pack voltage. If you have one bad cell in a pack that is dropping below 3.0v under load it is going to get damaged, but that is down to a pack with a bad cell, that’s not an LVC problem. If your packs are getting hot and puffing it is likely that your setup and gearing is drawing more power than those batteries can handle and that is damaging your cells, not the LVC setting. If you set your LVC to a higher number like 3.4v it will work just fine, and if LVC is kicking in “early” it is likely there is a bad cell dropping so much under load that the total voltage hits LVC. If you want to avoid damaging your batteries you are better off to set LVC higher and then run cheap voltage alarms on your balance leads while you are running. Those alarms on the balance leads DO see individual cell voltage so if you set those alarms to 2.9v if it alarms you gave a cell dropping that low under load. When it beeps stop the truck and immediately view the voltage on each cell with the alarm/tester and find the lowest voltage cell. It won’t be at 2.9 v when you stop but that should tell you which cell is dropping under load.

The net of it is that LVC works fine unless your batteries already have one or more damaged cells. It’s not the LVC causing the damage, that is down to batteries that can’t handle the current demands and conditions you are subjecting them to.

This Goldbatts - what are the specs on them? How do you charge them? How long after fully charging do you let the, sit before running them? Are you always setting them to storage charge right after using them? Do you have a voltage checker that can measure internal resistance?

All I know is that after setting everything manually, none of my batteries drop below 3.2V per cell. What I'm trying to say is that the auto lipo function on both the Castle and HW systems does not work correctly. On the HW system for example on the Max 5 I chose "high LVC cut off" in setting #3, then I chose "8s" in setting #2. Before that, it was on medium LVC and AUTO from factory. That would drain at least one of my cells to below 3v. I verified all this

 

[Yazman]

I actually did a decent job soldering 6.5 mm connectors onto the BLX 185. I swapped it into the max just to realize that my fancy Traxxas light kit is designed to plug into the Traxxas ESC

Tell me there is a way I can still run my light
kit! It was $100, and it's just so cool

 

[Armarookie43]

I actually did a decent job soldering 6.5 mm connectors onto the BLX 185. I swapped it into the max just to realize that my fancy Traxxas light kit is designed to plug into the Traxxas ESC

Tell me there is a way I can still run my light
kit! It was $100, and it's just so cool

TBH I always break lights on bashers. You are probably a light basher (like are nice to your rigs). I don't think so. You have to use the TRX stuff. Did the cogging go away?

 

[Yazman]

TBH I always break lights on bashers. You are probably a light basher (like are nice to your rigs). I don't think so. You have to use the TRX stuff. Did the cogging go away?

Cogging was much better, but I don't know if the ESC is fried or my battery somehow drained, but the BLX 185 was absolutely awful in terms of power. It was like I was running on 2s. I swapped it out for the vxl8 and it had plenty of speed and power but cogged insanely. I'm going to try the vxl6 and gearing down to 20/50