LiPo Testing And The Spreadsheet

[Moirae]

Just to clear it up a bit lol, I didnt say they were the best, but imo best budget batteries. Not sure where you live dude but that same battery gets to me on the 15th and a Hoovo 5000's get to me on the 14th. Throughout my couple decades messing with lipo's I've had bad and good of all brands so in a car or truck whats the point of spending what the car is worth on a battery lol. I even build and repair packs.

Now lolol, I also never said I don't use good batteries either, Just IMO a car/truck forum isn't really where or when I'd need them. You know when you need them - and its not in any of my arrma's but maybe a few high end peoples speed run cars that have a arrma roller but not stock arrma electonics. Where you need them is in a big Helicopter or Jet lol, the actual pinnacle of RC, end game of rc. Or a drone that weighs almost nothing and pulls 220amps when you do a punch out. I can drain a 5000 in a heli in a couple minutes, you better believe I got pulse's and other brands running in those. Also I do run smc and cnhl in my drones, not heli's. I just don't feel cars and trucks are worth it was my whole point. This data would be more relevant on a forum of high end rc's such as helifreak.

So here I am on a car/truck forum, so im giving my opinion about cars and trucks and the majority of what people do here. And sorry this just isnt a big deal to 90% of people here and they will buy the brands i listed. WHY, because they are cheap, and fast to get and available to by. I think my point was lost here but thats ok. Cars and Trucks are small time RC stuff. The pinnacle of RC will always be Heli's.

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I have to disagree with you when you say the only place they're really needed is helicopters and jets. My kraton 8s says otherwise. I just had to return some cheap lipo because I couldn't even full throttle without it cutting out.

Even for the Arrma 6s rigs, I don't have stock electronics in any of my 20+ Arrma rigs. Sure, my zee batteries "work" in my 6s rigs and if I didn't know any better and was ignorant, I would probably be happy with them.

The moment you try another brand and see the difference in punch there is no going back though. I haven't even used my zee's in almost a year because why? all my other batteries perform better. If I know I can get more punch by spending a few extra dollars I'm doing it.

 

[nomis38]

We do have a lot of speed run guys on here and most get maybe 2 passes out of their packs before they are drained, if that says much of anything about the power they are pulling, so an rc car forum is a good place to post this kind of info as the speed run guys are the most likely to use it. Sure it is an extremely small portion of the users here but they are still here.

And for bashing I can assure you that a good pack vs a decent one is a noticeable difference in power. Case in point I had a Turnigy HD 6s 60c 5000mah brick lipo and 2 3s 50c 5500mah Ovonic lipos. When doing jumps the Turnigy could pull off double and triple backflips without batting an eye, the Ovonics could pull off a single but struggled to do doubles, with the Turnigy I could self right with the Ovonics I could not. So yes running better batteries is beneficial to bashers as well. IIRC the Ovonics cost more than the Turnigy but I would have to double check that.

While I do agree with that I also will stick with my original statement that apparently blows 3% of peoples minds on this forum lol, and it wasnt meant to insult it was meant to add to this thread and the 97% of people that will read it and not respond and just obtain general info.

("Best bang for the buck:
Hoovo
Goldbat
HRB
Ovonic
Zeee

Best of the best:
Debatable no matter how much testing is done unfortunately.")

The reason I said this was not to bash anyone, so its why I said my point was lost here a bit. Of course there are car/truck motors that can pull batteries down fast lol thats why i stated that, Of course one battery can do a double backflip and one does on a single. But you also proved my point about the best of the best being debatable no matter the data. A turnigy vs a ovonic. Hmmm. Well lets go even further cause I happen to like real world application best. I have had two exact batteries bought at the exact same time and one was just like what you describe felt like it had 30% more punch when doing stunts. Both cheap batteries. I popped a high end battery in and was only able to duplicate this, not get any better by having literally a $150 battery compared to a $49 one. Its hit and miss and my data will always be different from others. if enough money is spent we might have similar data do to the volume but it will only be similar data, not exact, I will still choose a brand as literal best and you will choose another.

Now read my original statement again lol, It was general and stating its all just debatable in the end. Luck is the factor for most users on this forum. They could spend $150 on your recommendation and get a lemon and spend $50 on mine and get exactly what they want. I have shipped batts back to amazon and they got no issues and its super fast and painless. If you get a crap battery your not stuck with a wasted pack lol. Send that crap back and get a proper one.

I have to disagree with you when you say the only place they're really needed is helicopters and jets. My kraton 8s says otherwise. I just had to return some cheap lipo because I couldn't even full throttle without it cutting out.

Even for the Arrma 6s rigs, I don't have stock electronics in any of my 20+ Arrma rigs. Sure, my zee batteries "work" in my 6s rigs and if I didn't know any better and was ignorant, I would probably be happy with them.

The moment you try another brand and see the difference in punch there is no going back though. I haven't even used my zee's in almost a year because why? all my other batteries perform better. If I know I can get more punch by spending a few extra dollars I'm doing it.

Ok we can split hairs here too power and performance aside lol. How much you got in your Kraton $ and how easy is it to have it fall out of the air and be a total loss of thousands of dollars. It's not easy there fore you can spend your money else where. You don't want your $4k heli dropping and ending up in 100 pieces so you buy all things high end. Hell the ESC in that diabolo is $850 lol.

If you got batts cutting out in your Kraton 8s then yes i agree they are crap send them back and get others, even cheap ones, that wont do that. You got some bad batch.

I do agree if you have the money, yes more punch equals more fun. But batteries being junk in a kraton 8s is just a bad batch. Mine would work fine. 100% i don't have a cheap battery that will cut out at wot in a 8s kraton and they will last more then 2.5 minutes unlike in a heli cause it drains batts slow in comparison and isnt as demanding.

 

[Hector_Fisher]

I appreciate your desire to test and prove lipo industries. The false advertising in the lipo industry is far too out of whack and many of these companies need to be put in check.

I think the conclusion for which is the "best of the best" will depend on the test setup and your evaluating criteria, which ultimately will be partially subjective. But I do think it would be able pretty obvious at least which packs are among the top of the list. That information may be valuable to some. Though as stated before, that kind of information is really applicable to the specific demographics, such as the speed running crowd here. Most of the general RC users and bashers probably wouldn't be monetarily interested in that kind of information when they can watch a few youtube videos or read a few amazon results and be convinced enough of their purchasing options and choices.

In reality, the "best" option will always factor in cost. Which is why overall "value" plays a big role in determining which lipos are the best to choose, and part of the reason why zeee, hoovo, hrb, sundapow (and any other cheapo brand) make loads of money on the low end market. My point is that the typical user is more interested in value than "best of the best". I'm sure SMC SRD's or Onyx lipos would make my Kraton EXB scream. But for the price of my set of hoovo's, I could get another 3 sets to match the price of the top end equivalent. It's hard not to ignore that--having 3 to 4 times the run time with adequate performance over a single pack with greater performance.

Definitely an interesting debate, that's for sure.

 

[Adiabatic]

Because scientific data is debatable?

Absolutely:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

Not saying your studies are necessarily a victim of this, but sloppy data collection, bad statistical techniques, etc. often undermine research even in the hard sciences.

I'd like to know more about your methodology but don't want to pay a monthly subscription for it. I have enough of those already. Maybe a one-time or annual fee to buy an updated dataset if I'm satisfied with how it's being collected and analysed. I'd appreciate if you made this info (test equipment and conditions, typical sample size of each battery model, repeatability of test results, etc.) available in front of the paywall if you want to keep the experimental data behind it. I do have a scientific/engineering background so lots of technical detail is appreciated.

 

[nomis38]

Because scientific data is debatable? Im pretty sure scientists, engineers, and electronics techs would disagree with you. Only one of those lipos you listed is even middle of the road. There are much better batteries than those for roughly the same money. doesn't matter to me though, At least I know Im buying quality batteries.

Just an excerpt from the spreadsheet. The rest of the batteries you listed fall in to about the same junk category as the Hoovos with the exception of HRB which is only middle of the road.

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Fair nuff

This is literally what i meant in the first statement I made. It's debatable, I don't have a single Hoovo that is that terrible. Not one. Actually my worst and most swollen batteries right now are Pulses, but they have been ran to death. Also I'm a lucky person and prolly got all the good ones in these batches. Again proving my point they aren't all bad, most are worth what you paid. Data is only as good as the constancy of the manufacturing process my friend. Now if your saying every single pack you tested, tested this way then I will say ur bonkers. I do always love when people say roughly the same cost as well lol. When the masses buy an RC they try to save every dollar they can. If other peoples batteries are so good and so cheap why not knock the competition out and under sell them and prove their price to performance is best.

If you go around saying all the batteries that I listed are "junk" as you say and never to buy them you absolutely will get people like me that say I have top end batteries and low end, and my low ends for the money do the job so well I still use them as often as the rest. Esp in these cheap little couple hundred dollar vehicles lolol.

Sorry you got offended by my first post, but my data serves me quite well, and yours apparently serves you. That is why we all obtain our own. Your and anyone else's data to me or anyone else is just a guideline and debatable always and forever, in any topic in this universe. "No matter what technical data you may have obtained." jk

 

[Moirae]

All I can speak on is what I have experience with and that includes 3 different zee batteries and they all sucked. Chalkin it up to "bad batch" not really good enough imo. If those batteries work fine for others that's awesome. Performance speaks for itself though and I don't need to be a scientist to tell which batteries give me more umph. I can't comment on hovoo but others seem to have good results with them.

I know my SMC cost me about 40$ more total compared to the equivalent hovoo and zee batteries and thats 20$ more per 4s battery. Granted amazon charges tax and smc doesn't. For me that extra 40 is worth knowing I'm getting really good batteries though if I knew for sure the hovoo or cheaper batteries would work for me I would have went that route.

Experience has shown me that my electronics and the way I gear need better though. Hell, even my cnhl 8000 mah racing packs would choke sometimes on my k8s, I had to lower the punch and I would trust those more than some zee's any day.

 

[Greywolf74]

I had no idea Liperior was a decent brand. Their prices are a little too similar to SMC for my liking though, but I guess it's a little cheaper

Yeah, Liperior has raised there prices a fair amount in the last 6 months as well as several other companies that Ive seen. I really like the company though, its based out of California and they have pretty good customer service.

I appreciate your desire to test and prove lipo industries. The false advertising in the lipo industry is far too out of whack and many of these companies need to be put in check.

So true. especially the C ratings.

I think the conclusion for which is the "best of the best" will depend on the test setup and your evaluating criteria, which ultimately will be partially subjective. But I do think it would be able pretty obvious at least which packs are among the top of the list. That information may be valuable to some.

The data is the data. All I can do is show people the test results. Its up to people to look through the test results and compare that to the price that the battery is going to cost and they have to make up their own mind as to which one they want to buy. There are obvious winners and losers though at least in terms of the raw data. Value is the only subjective part which is why its not part of my test results.

Though as stated before, that kind of information is really applicable to the specific demographics, such as the speed running crowd here. Most of the general RC users and bashers probably wouldn't be monetarily interested in that kind of information when they can watch a few youtube videos or read a few amazon results and be convinced enough of their purchasing options and choices.

I understand this sort of thing isnt the average Joes cup of tea thats why Im not trying to sell the data, Im happy to share a lot of my general info with people. The patreon thing is just something Im trying to do in order to continue testing more expensive packs. If people don't think the end result isnt worth $5/mo then no one is trying to force them to sign up. I was hoping that there would be others like myself who were interested in donating what is essentially an energy drink or two a month to a project that benefits everyone in the hobby. Again, if not thats fine too.

Absolutely:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

Not saying your studies are necessarily a victim of this, but sloppy data collection, bad statistical techniques, etc. often undermine research even in the hard sciences.

I'd like to know more about your methodology but don't want to pay a monthly subscription for it. I have enough of those already. Maybe a one-time or annual fee to buy an updated dataset if I'm satisfied with how it's being collected and analysed. I'd appreciate if you made this info (test equipment and conditions, typical sample size of each battery model, repeatability of test results, etc.) available in front of the paywall if you want to keep the experimental data behind it. I do have a scientific/engineering background so lots of technical detail is appreciated.

The equipment Im using is a combination of the following:
Hyperion eMeterII datalogger
Progressive RC ESR Meter Mark II
DL24P electronic load
SkyRC BD250 Battery discharger
and for the really high current load testing I built a resistive load tester. The build thread for which you can find HERE on RCT if youre interested.

As for the data HERE is a link to a couple of sample tests. These are the eMeter data logs, discharge graphs, and test sheets for Hoovo and Liperior Pro. The test sheet will show you my testing methods. All the results are averaged to get the final numbers. If you have any further questions ask away.

I don't have a single Hoovo that is that terrible.

I never said they didnt work. I just said the test results are at the bottom of the pile. If thats good enough for you then thats good enough for you.

Data is only as good as the constancy of the manufacturing process my friend. Now if your saying every single pack you tested, tested this way then I will say ur bonkers.

Im saying that my tests are consistent and the packs where Ive tested multiples of the same exact pack all come out testing very similar to one another. Can there be a bad lipo here and there? Sure, but the overwhelming majority of the time youre going to get a battery thats virtually identical to the others. If you actually tested your batteries in some manner other than just using them youd know that.

I do always love when people say roughly the same cost as well lol. When the masses buy an RC they try to save every dollar they can.

So youve decided to speak for everyone else out there? Maybe you should just speak for yourself because Im pretty sure you don't even speak for at least half the people just in this thread let alone "the masses"

If you go around saying all the batteries that I listed are "junk" as you say and never to buy them you absolutely will get people like me that say I have top end batteries and low end, and my low ends for the money do the job so well I still use them as often as the rest. Esp in these cheap little couple hundred dollar vehicles lolol.

You can use whatever you want to use, I never said they don't work. doesn't mean they arent junk.

Your and anyone else's data to me or anyone else is just a guideline and debatable always and forever, in any topic in this universe.

said no engineer, ever...

 

[chris adams]

Edited my post above.
I'd love to see some info on a comparison of those 2 packs specifically.

I'd pay $20 to know that info, but not really interested in paying for some monthly deal.

I am mildly interested in how the CNHL G+ and Parallel packs compare also.

I'm with him so now we're up to $40 between the two of us

 

[djrahbee]

FWIW...I got some Liperior lipos because I read @Greywolf74 mention them a few months back. 2 6s, 2 4s and 4 3s packs. All soft except 2 of the 3s packs. I love them but don't have a whole lot of experience to compare. Got 4 6s CHNL as well...those are bad a$$! No complaints and bash pretty hard.

 

[JustAnOutcast]

If you have any further questions ask away.

How do the GA batteries stack up? Saw the 3s 5500mah 60c on Amz last week for $49.

 

[Greywolf74]

How do the GA batteries stack up? Saw the 3s 5500mah 60c on Amz last week for $49.

By GA Im assuming you means Gens-Ace? Between the regular Gens, the bashing, and the adventure lines the adventure line was the best out of the three. The regular and the Bashing series tested middle of the road and while the Adventure series battery tested toward the upper end of the chart its price tag tends to make it not worth the money (imo) comapred to some of the other lipos out there that test as good or better for less money. Liperior, Liperior Pro, CNHL (G+ and Parrallel series), and Zippy compact all tested in the same general range but cost less than the Adventure pack.

P.S.
BTW, Liperior Endurance hardcase packs did not test nearly as well as the soft packs and the liperior pro packs. I forgot to mention the endurance line because its pretty new. I just recently tested those.

 

[JustAnOutcast]

By GA Im assuming you means Gens-Ace? Between the regular Gens, the bashing, and the adventure lines the adventure line was the best out of the three. The regular and the Bashing series tested middle of the road and while the Adventure series battery tested toward the upper end of the chart its price tag tends to make it not worth the money (imo) comapred to some of the other lipos out there that test as good or better for less money. Liperior, Liperior Pro, CNHL (G+ and Parrallel series), and Zippy compact all tested in the same general range but cost less than the Adventure pack.

P.S.
BTW, Liperior Endurance hardcase packs did not test nearly as well as the soft packs and the liperior pro packs. I forgot to mention the endurance line because its pretty new. I just recently tested those.

Yes, those are the ones. Thanks. As somewhat of a compulsive data collector myself, I applaud your work and would consider making a one-time contribution. I suspect there are others here that would like to contribute this way too. Not really much of a need to see your data as my usage is basically backyard bashing and I’m content being able to pop a wheelie at 20mph, and occasional 30 minute runtimes seem outstanding to me. Anyway, is there a way to give a one-time donation anonymously without having to join Patreon?

 

[Hector_Fisher]

BTW, Liperior Endurance hardcase packs did not test nearly as well as the soft packs and the liperior pro packs. I forgot to mention the endurance line because its pretty new. I just recently tested those.

I had a negative experience with the endurance packs I recently purchased. IR was unacceptably high for one of the packs. Unfortunately, that was my first set of liperiors, so in a way the bad taste is already in my mouth. Should have bought the regular instead of the endurance. Though, they did have good customer service and sorted things out. So i'd be willing to try them again perhaps.

 

[BonerChamp]

@Greywolf74 are you familiar with https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons ? How does your testing compare to this?

 

[Greywolf74]

Yes, those are the ones. Thanks. As somewhat of a compulsive data collector myself, I applaud your work and would consider making a one-time contribution. I suspect there are others here that would like to contribute this way too. Not really much of a need to see your data as my usage is basically backyard bashing and I’m content being able to pop a wheelie at 20mph, and occasional 30 minute runtimes seem outstanding to me. Anyway, is there a way to give a one-time donation anonymously without having to join Patreon?

Not something Ive even considered up to this point. I only started the patreon because recently Ive started to run out of lipos to test and I was hoping to find some like minded people that were willing to help me sustain my testing so I wasnt having to come out of pocket all by myself. Especially consering the fact that the lipos I really want to start testing now are the higher tier batteries that are much more expensive. If it doesn't work out then thats fine too. If nothing else I at least know for myself which lipos are worth looking at buying and which ones arent at least in the sub $100 range of batteries.

@Greywolf74 are you familiar with https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1767093-Battery-Load-Test-Comparisons ? How does your testing compare to this?

Im aware of his work and Im a big fan. He is obviously an engineer, hes got waaaaay better and more expensive testing equipment, and apparently a lot more money than I do lol. Im just an old IT guy whos an RC and electronics hobbyist trying to do what I can to help the folks that play with ground kits. His testing is all centered around 6S EDFs so alot of the test results he compiles arent as useful to people running ground kits as opposed to pilots. He also goes a lot more in depth with his testing than I do. For the most part, I figured the main things that ground people would be interested in would be if the stated mAh rating actually lives up to what its supposed to be, and racers/speed runners in particular would want to know which brands and series maintains the highest voltages under load for the duration of pack down to 3.2V/C. I also wanted to spread the knowledge of how C ratings are pretty much complete BS because there is no standardization for actually testing it within the LiPo battery industry. I also decided to track wire gauge and pack weight because racers in particular often want to know those bits of info too.

 

[slick2500]

Not something Ive even considered up to this point. I only started the patreon because recently Ive started to run out of lipos to test and I was hoping to find some like minded people that were willing to help me sustain my testing so I wasnt having to come out of pocket all by myself. Especially consering the fact that the lipos I really want to start testing now are the higher tier batteries that are much more expensive. If it doesn't work out then thats fine too. If nothing else I at least know for myself which lipos are worth looking at buying and which ones arent at least in the sub $100 range of batteries.


Im aware of his work and Im a big fan. He is obviously an engineer, hes got waaaaay better and more expensive testing equipment, and apparently a lot more money than I do lol. Im just an old IT guy whos an RC and electronics hobbyist trying to do what I can to help the folks that play with ground kits. His testing is all centered around 6S EDFs so alot of the test results he compiles arent as useful to people running ground kits as opposed to pilots. He also goes a lot more in depth with his testing than I do. For the most part, I figured the main things that ground people would be interested in would be if the stated mAh rating actually lives up to what its supposed to be, and racers/speed runners in particular would want to know which brands and series maintains the highest voltages under load for the duration of pack down to 3.2V/C. I also wanted to spread the knowledge of how C ratings are pretty much complete BS because there is no standardization for actually testing it within the LiPo battery industry. I also decided to track wire gauge and pack weight because racers in particular often want to know those bit of info too.

It amazes me how many people buy batteries based on the C rate listed on the packs. The Facebook groups are notorious for telling people to buy batteries based on the C rate alone.

Out of curiosity have you ever tested Traxxas lipos? I have a theory that they are some of the only ones that are even close to the real c rate on their packs as all of their packs are listed as only being 25c.

 

[Greywolf74]

It amazes me how many people buy batteries based on the C rate listed on the packs. The Facebook groups are notorious for telling people to buy batteries based on the C rate alone.

Out of curiosity have you ever tested Traxxas lipos? I have a theory that they are some of the only ones that are even close to the real c rate on their packs as all of their packs are listed as only being 25c.

Traxxas 25C tested at 17.6True C rating which is 70.4% of the stated rating. CNHL G+ series 30C actually did even better at hitting 24.6True C Rating which is 82% of its stated C rating. Two best results on my spread sheet in those terms but the Traxxas battery is overall only mediocre and the cost makes it not worth buying imo

 

[slick2500]

Traxxas 25C tested at 17.6True C rating which is 70.4% of the stated rating. CNHL G+ series 30C actually did even better at hitting 24.6True C Rating which is 82% of its stated C rating. Two best results on my spread sheet in those terms but the Traxxas battery is overall only mediocre and the cost makes it not worth buying imo

That is what I was thinking they would be close but probably not right at 25c. And yeah they are rather expensive for what they are like the Spektrum lipos.

 

[JustAnOutcast]

By GA Im assuming you means Gens-Ace? Between the regular Gens, the bashing, and the adventure lines the adventure line was the best out of the three. The regular and the Bashing series tested middle of the road and while the Adventure series battery tested toward the upper end of the chart its price tag tends to make it not worth the money (imo) comapred to some of the other lipos out there that test as good or better for less money.

Would you mind sharing your TrueC rating for regular Gens? Something around the 60c range. Just wanted to compare with this graph the company provides online.

 

[SrC]

I appreciate your desire to test and prove lipo industries. The false advertising in the lipo industry is far too out of whack and many of these companies need to be put in check.

I think the conclusion for which is the "best of the best" will depend on the test setup and your evaluating criteria, which ultimately will be partially subjective. But I do think it would be able pretty obvious at least which packs are among the top of the list. That information may be valuable to some. Though as stated before, that kind of information is really applicable to the specific demographics, such as the speed running crowd here. Most of the general RC users and bashers probably wouldn't be monetarily interested in that kind of information when they can watch a few youtube videos or read a few amazon results and be convinced enough of their purchasing options and choices.

In reality, the "best" option will always factor in cost. Which is why overall "value" plays a big role in determining which lipos are the best to choose, and part of the reason why zeee, hoovo, hrb, sundapow (and any other cheapo brand) make loads of money on the low end market. My point is that the typical user is more interested in value than "best of the best". I'm sure SMC SRD's or Onyx lipos would make my Kraton EXB scream. But for the price of my set of hoovo's, I could get another 3 sets to match the price of the top end equivalent. It's hard not to ignore that--having 3 to 4 times the run time with adequate performance over a single pack with greater performance.

Definitely an interesting debate, that's for sure.

+1
And I found that Lipos can all be a mixed bag.
Even if you buy a certain brand, same identical pack a year later, because the first one was mint and you were happy with it., only to find that the cell batches and cell Matching has gone south a year later with that one brand and pack. Been there . No matter how much you pay or the brand.
Lipos can be very subjective to so many of us. We all have different setups, Esc's, motors , rigs of varying weights etc.
Lipo industry is a very "Dark" one.
Made in China, so RC lipos are far from regulated spec wise. Always the luck of the draw IMHO.