Castle Creations XLX-2 just released

[Luigibell78]

Hey Kevin, since you are reading this anyways.
Come on dude! I tested that foam burns within 8s. Rubber tire takes much longer to start burning like that. So I make a remark in your defense and that's the line pick to mention?

Sad to see what happened with the second ESC. But with a scientific hat on, i am impressed how you filmed it this time. I take back my initial response to the video Kevin is not the best point of reference imho
You have proven that the xlx2 can definitely not deal with that motor / voltage combination.

The hobbywing has hard limits on amp draw and has a hold back when exceeding it's rpm limited. That's why the max6 is faster as it's rpm limit is about 40k (8S*1200kv) whiles the MAX5 has a limit of 33k some margin (8S*1000kv). I assume it's managed by software.
The XLX2 supposed to have 'no determined limit' on rpm limit. Now it has...

Good info...?

How about pulling up the no load specs of the tp motor he is running?. If it's more than 5-10 amps i would be surprised. There is definitely little to no load on kev's second test run.

The xlx2 can't handle a split second run of a few amps....seems kinda strange and it's nothing he is doing but rather a hardware compatibility issue.

 

[robert@castle]

Having a castle email address and a castle logo as an avatar, like it or not you’re definitely representing Castle with your comments.

I am representing Castle, but nothing I say should be taken as official company statement. I'm trying my best to educate and help people. I normally try to avoid making statements like I did about Kevin. I normally avoid making any statement about other people or other rc companies. I have the name/avatar because it gives some credibility to my answers. If I had my normal username any answer I gave to a question would be stuck in all the other answers and it would just be "something some dude said" rather than being seen as a legit answer. I used to post on rc tech under a different username and I found it very hard to post anything, it's a very fine line between helpful and being dismissed as a crazy Castle fan.

Thanks for the response but you still work for Castle and people will still tie you to being a representative of Castle if your on the clock or not. Even I work for a company in which I can be held accountable for what I say and how I handle myself off the clock. Thank you for standing up and stating you did the wrong thing here. My response was edited by the mods because I kinda let loose on you so I apologize for that. All everyone here wants is to know is if Castle is going to investigate so no one is hurt down the road or burns their houses down. Tesla had to do the same thing when their cars were catching fire after collisions.

Yes, I can be held accountable for what I say on here. I normally try to keep things as professional, direct, and technically correct as I can because I am aware of my position. I'm not sure if we are going to have an official recall or not. It wouldn't surprise me if we did at this point, but that is purely speculation on my part.

 

[FlipSide]

I am representing Castle, but nothing I say should be taken as official company statement. I'm trying my best to educate and help people. I normally try to avoid making statements like I did about Kevin. I normally avoid making any statement about other people or other rc companies. I have the name/avatar because it gives some credibility to my answers. If I had my normal username any answer I gave to a question would be stuck in all the other answers and it would just be "something some dude said" rather than being seen as a legit answer. I used to post on rc tech under a different username and I found it very hard to post anything, it's a very fine line between helpful and being dismissed as a crazy Castle fan.

Yes, I can be held accountable for what I say on here. I normally try to keep things as professional, direct, and technically correct as I can because I am aware of my position. I'm not sure if we are going to have an official recall or not. It wouldn't surprise me if we did at this point, but that is purely speculation on my part.

I think it is great that you are here helping out and providing useful information to Castle customers. I find you strike a great balance between credibility (because you work for Castle) and integrity (you seem to be here to help more than to generate hype).

Keep it up! I personally think you are doing it right.

I have seen (in another non-RC hobby) company people using the forums purely for commercial reasons, generating hype, etc. ...then going away when things started to get heated due to failing products.

 

[robert@castle]

I think it is great that you are here helping out and providing useful information to Castle customers. I find you strike a great balance between credibility (because you work for Castle) and integrity (you seem to be here to help more than to generate hype).

Keep it up! I personally think you are doing it right.

I have seen (in another non-RC hobby) company people using the forums purely for commercial reasons, generating hype, etc. ...then going away when things started to get heated due to failing products.

Thanks, I make it a point not to start threads promoting products. If someone wants to make a thread like this one to discus a product, I'll jump in and answer questions, but not in a marketing way.

3 rules I gave myself when I started posting as robert@castle:
Don't push or promote Castle products
Don't talk about another company's products
Don't comment on speculation or rumors, no leaks

 

[gotnitro]

Thanks, I make it a point not to start threads promoting products. If someone wants to make a thread like this one to discus a product, I'll jump in and answer questions, but not in a marketing way.

3 rules I gave myself when I started posting as robert@castle:
Don't push or promote Castle products
Don't talk about another company's products
Don't comment on speculation or rumors, no leaks

Well said. You didn't build the fuggin fireball ESC's! 2 things are certain, TAXES and RC cars break!

 

[jondilly1974]

I noticed he ran smart sense without sensor (the entire harness was missing), could that increase the amps pulled?

I also don't believe for a second that the ESC doesn't have a KV limit (just that it isn't stated anywhere).



Eh? There's a thousand reasons why this could've happened without claiming a lethal flaw in the ESC. Talbot being one of them. I don't believe that he faked either fire (though the first one struck me odd too - i do put it down to "okay, never seen it happen this way but might not be impossible"), and the second clearly was authentic - but there's always the fact that Talbot is very British Leyland about stuff (in case you don't understand the reference - it refers to cars built by british leyland back in the days, where no panel was sitting straight - because "that'll do").

For starters, he has exposed pins (sensor harness unplugged) on the board - he puts the truck in water/rain. He runs it in smart sense, without sensor harness, things like that.

I'll not absolve castle of anything, it might very well be a faulty ESC (twice) - but until there's actual evidence one way or another, this entire hysteria is just childish.

That being said: i do absolutely expect Castle to follow up on this, including contacting Talbot and replacing his ESCs (while having engineers go through the blown ones to figure out what went wrong) - and accept responsibility if it turns out to be their fault.

There is no KV limit as Robert has mentioned since your post.

There is a potentially lethal flaw in the XLX2 design as Robert has also already mentioned. There is a potential for a dead short due to issues with assembly and the glues used to pot the boards.

 

[m4inbrain]

There is no KV limit as Robert has mentioned since your post.

There is a potentially lethal flaw in the XLX2 design as Robert has also already mentioned. There is a potential for a dead short due to issues with assembly and the glues used to pot the boards.

But there's a load limit, stop trying to chase semantics. I'm pretty sure you now exactly what i'm talking about.

Just watch the video, and listen to the sound of the motor before it pops - compare it to the sound on the Max6. To assume the Max6 (not even a Max5, a Max6) holds the insane current that motor pulls, but the XLX2 isn't, is disingenuous at best, sorry. Have people forgotten that he fried a big ZTW ESC with that motor too?

In regards to the "potentially lethal flaw", Robert also made clear that they patched it, and Talbots failures can't be attributed to that either since they would've shorted straight after plugging them in (which makes sense).

I'm not defending Castle here (yet), since it's still not clear what exactly happened, but this cancel culture bs has to stop. Especially if Talbot, who's known to be "eh" about safety, proper procedures etc, is on the receiving end. As mentioned, i don't think he staged the fires, but i do think he's at the very least partially responsible for them.

For starters, could Robert confirm that the ESCs are not "current-limiting"? Or, since i'm less than a layman, could something like "over-revving an engine" happen to the ESC, where you ask too much of it and instead of limiting itself, it does exactly what you're asking even though it's out of spec?

 

[luis41510]

 

[rotauq]

It's a safe guess that R&D @castle didn't have a test scenario in which they put the most insane 5S motor on 8S to see how it holds up. Should they? People in the speedrun market ask for a product without limitations. Should there be safety limitations set as default, i think so.

My guess is that the 'software' has trouble with interpreting what motor it's dealing with. A sensorless setup give a pulse to determine what it needs to do to get a quarter rotation (4pole motor). Side note; Castle default motor timing is 10deg while this is a motor that prefers 0deg (No public statement from TP though) With 33.3v on a 3200kv this likely gives an unexpected result, triggering some faulty behavior. Should this make it go in flames? Obviously not. Are there (more) quality problems at assembly? Maybe? It's up to castle to act.

@robert@castle , sure you are castle biased even if you don't intend to be. And nobody can blame you for it. By carrying the castle logo you act transparent. Your 3 rules show that you are tech driven and not been pushed around by marketing. From what i've seen you are honest, knowledgeable and most of all very very helpful.
You're initial response on the original video saying 'it looks staged' is still valid. You didn't say 'he definitely staged it'. Him fetching a camera first instead of extinguishing a gigantic fire hazard is not responsible behavior. We are not playing with Lego's here.
Kevin now certainly proved it wasn't staged and shown this combination of motor/voltage is a certain fire hazard.

 

[deezomaxima]

Yes, I can be held accountable for what I say on here. I normally try to keep things as professional, direct, and technically correct as I can because I am aware of my position. I'm not sure if we are going to have an official recall or not. It wouldn't surprise me if we did at this point, but that is purely speculation on my part.

I don't own any Castle products yet but I was looking into some for a speed car I'm toying with also. I would definitely like to know what the issues were with Kevin's ESCs. Hopefully, it will be posted here.

But there's a load limit, stop trying to chase semantics. I'm pretty sure you now exactly what i'm talking about.

Just watch the video, and listen to the sound of the motor before it pops - compare it to the sound on the Max6. To assume the Max6 (not even a Max5, a Max6) holds the insane current that motor pulls, but the XLX2 isn't, is disingenuous at best, sorry. Have people forgotten that he fried a big ZTW ESC with that motor too?

View attachment 115994

In regards to the "potentially lethal flaw", Robert also made clear that they patched it, and Talbots failures can't be attributed to that either since they would've shorted straight after plugging them in (which makes sense).

I'm not defending Castle here (yet), since it's still not clear what exactly happened, but this cancel culture bs has to stop. Especially if Talbot, who's known to be "eh" about safety, proper procedures etc, is on the receiving end. As mentioned, i don't think he staged the fires, but i do think he's at the very least partially responsible for them.

For starters, could Robert confirm that the ESCs are not "current-limiting"? Or, since i'm less than a layman, could something like "over-revving an engine" happen to the ESC, where you ask too much of it and instead of limiting itself, it does exactly what you're asking even though it's out of spec?

From what I've seen, Castle makes a strong product but let's not keep dogging on Kevin because he's sloppy. He's been doing this for a while and you'll even hear him ask for help from his viewers if he isn't clear on something. I have only been watching his channel for about a year and I've never seen this happen to him before.

 

[Mojave man]

Well if the hobbywing could handle the throttle in the air and all the stuff kev put it through than there is no defence for the castle esc as they were put through the same conditions. There is a flaw in the xlx2 that needs to be fixed.

 

[m_bash]

I trust Kevin Talbot.
He is great guy.

I have watch Kev for three years atleast.
Seen almost all Videos he made.
This is one great man.

This burning thing is horrible. Not Kevs wrong.
Two times.

Some one have crazy Hangover when manufacture these ESC´s
Maybe even worse. There is alot more burns coming.
Serious company must find out what this is about now before it is too late.
This can end very very bad.
Kevin is professional. He acted great both times.
Great guy that Kevin.

Some others maybe go shocked, drop the rig indoors, house burns up.
Kevin did fast great thing there.
Throw the car outside very first time.
And smart he did the second test outside.

Hobbywing Max ESC shows nothing is Kevs failure.

Question is , Hangover worker, or do we have real big Issue here?

It is very important that Castle must say the truth. Stop selling all these ESC from that batch Kev got.
And find out what this is about now,

Castle = go with same set up like KEV did.

KEV you should test one more time this thing also. Third time,
Castle need pay KEV some money now right away. let him do have money for new wheels, diffs, worktime, and new lipos and so on.
Also pay for all three setups,
Atleast the two burned ones.

Big companies must always be very serious

KEV is great RC guy, great inspiration and help to this industry

don't blame Kev
This is Castle problem !

 

[jkflow]

Either design flaw or assembly issues, there is nothing in the video that he is doing wrong, simple as that.
If a cap blows you will know, it's noisy and stinks i.e. the description from Holmes Hobby is not as to what seems to have happened.

 

[Brisbane_North]

I think this is a wake up call for all of us on the dangers of these RC cars - I store and work on mine in my home - so this video of Kev and his fire is scary to see.
IMO you don't say something is staged until you 100% know it is - first come back and tell us your company is investigating and will do what it takes to make this ESC safe...
I'm thankful for seeing this video of the fire(s) and the other ones on his channel as it reminds me of what can happen...

 

[m_bash]

I think this is a wake up call for all of us on the dangers of these RC cars - I store and work on mine in my home - so this video of Kev and his fire is scary to see.
IMO you don't say something is staged until you 100% know it is - first come back and tell us your company is investigating and will do what it takes to make this ESC safe...
I'm thankful for seeing this video of the fire(s) and the other ones on his channel as it reminds me of what can happen...

This is very good reminder.

I will check my Lipos and stuff once again , now. And try have more respect to them
Safety first ! Then you can have alot more fun times

 

[deezomaxima]

This is very good reminder.

I will check my Lipos and stuff once again , now. And try have more respect to them
Safety first ! Then you can have alot more fun times

When you're running that much current and voltage, check everything that can cause these issues, motor, esc and batteries. Triple check your wiring and connectors too.

 

[Jimbobjr]

Is there any problems with the mmx 8s? (Besides the fan screws bottoming out in the tops of the caps lol) I find it to be a beast and throws around my 30lb Kraton like nothing else and is only the size of a max6 which would run maybe 3 minutes in my k8s before it shuts itself off...

 

[Boodaggy]

Is there any problems with the mmx 8s? (Besides the fan screws bottoming out in the tops of the caps lol) I find it to be a beast and throws around my 30lb Kraton like nothing else and is only the size of a max6 which would run maybe 3 minutes in my k8s before it shuts itself off...

I have been very happy with my mmx8s in my xmaxx and Kraton is. I have seen multiple instances of my mmx8s in my Kraton pull 330 amps without issue. Other than the crappy fan and 1990 Tyco power switch it has been perfect.

 

[Jimbobjr]

I have been very happy with my mmx8s in my xmaxx and Kraton is. I have seen multiple instances of my mmx8s in my Kraton pull 330 amps without issue. Other than the crappy fan and 1990 Tyco power switch it has been perfect.

Oh yeah, the switch and fan are a joke. I mounted a power hobby fan with a screen on it and it’s been great. So far the switch still works.

 

[Stevectl]

I can't believe that castle would not immediately apologize and put a statement out saying there is an issue.
Yet the only public response is to attack a customer tell him he is lieing and continue to sell an esc that you know has issues. I own one castle and motor combo, I'm afraid that it will be my one and only. I can't trust a company that can produce such a dangerous product knowingly