Talion New 2018 Talion (V3) -- Change of character?

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pantag

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Arrma RC's
  1. Talion
Background: I have been researching RCs for a couple months. It's been around 7 years since I sold my old Revo 2.5 (yes!) and now I got the bug again to get into the RC game (I found out the LiPOs can be fun... exploding fun!!). From my research so far, it seems that Arrma is the answer no matter how hard the local salesmen are trying to push Traxxas down my throat. I am torn between the new Talion V3 vs Kraton V2 (current model).

So, as you probably saw on the news, the new Talion V3 is coming out in a few days. It seems that Arrma was focused (maybe too much) on lowering the new Talion and setting it up for speed. Now, they call it a "speed truggy", yet another category..? From the pictures that started flowing, the wheels are higher than the body! This thing will disappear in the distance and be barely visible so low. I also compared the ride height between Talion V2 and V3. According to Arrma's website, V2 has 37mm clearance and the V3 has 45mm. How is this possible!? Is it a typo? Are we talking here about a fundamental change to the Talion series? To me, it would be more appropriate to do such changes for speed on the Typhon buggy, not on a truggy!

So... Is the new 2018 Talion V3 really a truggy anymore, with all the on-road modifications? For someone who wants to bash and does not race nor wants to put it on track and don't care for speed, does the new Talion makes sense? Is Kraton the anwer? (ideally V3!)
 
I agree that the new Talion seems to be pointed at a very small demographic. While I do feel the Talion has always been more about speed than the Kraton, it was also about being a RTR Race Truggy. Open the Box, drop in on the track, and instant race truck (some tuning required)

On the other hand, (you have five more fingers) it is still a racing truggy. The new tires will not be welcome at most tracks, but the v1/v2 tires - while they "looked" racy - they were hard and didn't really do great on tracks - so you still needed to buy tires to race. With the V3, at least the tires will be good bashing tires - the v1/v2 tires were pretty much useless everywhere.

Tuning - yeah, the V3 will need more tuning to get it set up for track running. I do worry the extreme angle on the shocks will give tuning issues, as it will be harder to copy other racing suspension tunes.

So the question really will be, how will YOU drive it? And, can you wait till the Kraton v3 is released? :)

I will say, I still love my son's Kraton v1. WIth proper truggy tires, it will do good at the local off-road track. With monster tires, it will tear up the parks and grass lots. Currently it is running the Nero motor and ESC, and it has power for days.
 
Yeah...I am leaning towards the new V3 Kraton, when it gets released. I hope it is soon! If anyone has any info on this, please inform.
 
Background: I have been researching RCs for a couple months. It's been around 7 years since I sold my old Revo 2.5 (yes!) and now I got the bug again to get into the RC game (I found out the LiPOs can be fun... exploding fun!!). From my research so far, it seems that Arrma is the answer no matter how hard the local salesmen are trying to push Traxxas down my throat. I am torn between the new Talion V3 vs Kraton V2 (current model).

So, as you probably saw on the news, the new Talion V3 is coming out in a few days. It seems that Arrma was focused (maybe too much) on lowering the new Talion and setting it up for speed. Now, they call it a "speed truggy", yet another category..? From the pictures that started flowing, the wheels are higher than the body! This thing will disappear in the distance and be barely visible so low. I also compared the ride height between Talion V2 and V3. According to Arrma's website, V2 has 37mm clearance and the V3 has 45mm. How is this possible!? Is it a typo? Are we talking here about a fundamental change to the Talion series? To me, it would be more appropriate to do such changes for speed on the Typhon buggy, not on a truggy!

So... Is the new 2018 Talion V3 really a truggy anymore, with all the on-road modifications? For someone who wants to bash and does not race nor wants to put it on track and don't care for speed, does the new Talion makes sense? Is Kraton the anwer? (ideally V3!)


The height difference is probably due too the v3 tires are more narrow and taller than the standard truggy tire would be.
 
Yeah...I am leaning towards the new V3 Kraton, when it gets released. I hope it is soon! If anyone has any info on this, please inform.

I'm guessing that Arrma won't announce anything about the Kraton V3 until all the V2 stocks are depleted. They still want people buying the V2's right now.
 
With the V2's, they announced the Kraton and Typhon about this time of the year, and they started shipping around mid-Nov. Early Nov, they announced the Senton, which shipped mid Dec. Talion was not announced till February or so, a long enough delay that the rumor mill had it discontinued.
 
My prediction is Kraton V3 by Christmas. But the Talion is not much different from Kraton, just put Tekno springs on it, jack up the suspension, and some Backflip tires, it will be awesome.
 
I JUST GOT THE KNEW TALION ON SUNDAY. HAD A BIG ROCK AND SOLD IT MONTHS AGO. ALL I CAN SAY IT VERY STABLE AS I BIUGHT THE PROLINE BAD LANDS AND HAVE NOT RUN THE STOCK TIRES YET. SEEMS TOP NOTHCH
 
It seems they are sticking with the v2 Kraton for now as of November 2017, i am waiting on the v3 Kraton but i don't want to wait too long. This will be my first rc in 15 years and im choosing the Kraton as its a good all round vehicle for track or bash. Any info if and when the v3 Kraton is coming out is appreciated or i might have to buy the closest thing to it or the v2.
 
It seems they are sticking with the v2 Kraton for now as of November 2017, i am waiting on the v3 Kraton but i don't want to wait too long. This will be my first rc in 15 years and im choosing the Kraton as its a good all round vehicle for track or bash. Any info if and when the v3 Kraton is coming out is appreciated or i might have to buy the closest thing to it or the v2.
The v3 is already out. They didn't do a drastic redesign like the Talion. The Kraton didn't even get a new paint job. It got the new battery tray, radio box and shocks among other things though.
 
Hello all! i am new here but i have been an avid rc guy for 12-13 years. Big time basher and racer when i can. Tho i do not have a local track right now, i am trying to start a racing league here in idaho where i live. So, Yeah i personally was torn between the V3 talion and the v2 or v3 kraton. Here is my take on the matter....
I have had a lot of cars in my day and my personal favorite class is the 1/8 truggy hands down. Power out the wazoo, durable chassis and driveline, and just plain gorgeous... Heh anyways...
The v3 talion does have taller tires than the v1 and v2. Killer bash tires but never intended to race because every body has their own tires they run on different surfaces. Thats why a lot of really high end race rigs do not have tires with them. Arrma sets the ride height low for a more forgiving ride, plus they hardly put any preload on the shocks at all so you could easily crank them up or use stiffer springs. Now the kraton, it is the exact same truck. Zero difference in the chassis. The difference that makes it not a true truggy is the monster truck tires with wide offset, the different style body and large custom molded wing and over the Talion it has longer stub axles meaning a rough 10mm plus per side wider stance. Not just wide offset wheels. I personally like the kraton better for a bash rig but prefer the talion styling. It is a much better looking body but the kraton is a better car imo. Truggy wheels and you got a killer club racer with a slight advantage.
V2 vs V3 kraton... this is why i am going to get a v3 over anything else. v1 or v2 was a solid truck and has been only getting better with time. Now the v3 has the new battery tray from the outcast, a new radio box, updated steering knuckles but i believe they are the same as v2, a tougher wing mount, and the biggest benefit... Stronger bulkhead with more webbing. Already a tough as crap truck got even tougher. It translates into no more hinge pins ripping out, bent towers will not damage the bulkhead as often and better bearing thus better diff support. Its a win win for me. Especially since i am sick of my pile of poopy e revo eating diffs like fruit snacks... i love all the arrma trucks tho. I wished with the v3 they put the nero ring and pinion gears instead of the original gears which would be even more indestructible than this beast already is. That is the only thing they could do to make the truck even better. Then the would be perfect! What do you all think?
arad71_image16_1010.jpg
 
Hello all! i am new here but i have been an avid rc guy for 12-13 years. Big time basher and racer when i can. Tho i do not have a local track right now, i am trying to start a racing league here in idaho where i live. So, Yeah i personally was torn between the V3 talion and the v2 or v3 kraton. Here is my take on the matter....
I have had a lot of cars in my day and my personal favorite class is the 1/8 truggy hands down. Power out the wazoo, durable chassis and driveline, and just plain gorgeous... Heh anyways...
The v3 talion does have taller tires than the v1 and v2. Killer bash tires but never intended to race because every body has their own tires they run on different surfaces. Thats why a lot of really high end race rigs do not have tires with them. Arrma sets the ride height low for a more forgiving ride, plus they hardly put any preload on the shocks at all so you could easily crank them up or use stiffer springs. Now the kraton, it is the exact same truck. Zero difference in the chassis. The difference that makes it not a true truggy is the monster truck tires with wide offset, the different style body and large custom molded wing and over the Talion it has longer stub axles meaning a rough 10mm plus per side wider stance. Not just wide offset wheels. I personally like the kraton better for a bash rig but prefer the talion styling. It is a much better looking body but the kraton is a better car imo. Truggy wheels and you got a killer club racer with a slight advantage.
V2 vs V3 kraton... this is why i am going to get a v3 over anything else. v1 or v2 was a solid truck and has been only getting better with time. Now the v3 has the new battery tray from the outcast, a new radio box, updated steering knuckles but i believe they are the same as v2, a tougher wing mount, and the biggest benefit... Stronger bulkhead with more webbing. Already a tough as crap truck got even tougher. It translates into no more hinge pins ripping out, bent towers will not damage the bulkhead as often and better bearing thus better diff support. Its a win win for me. Especially since i am sick of my pile of poopy e revo eating diffs like fruit snacks... i love all the arrma trucks tho. I wished with the v3 they put the nero ring and pinion gears instead of the original gears which would be even more indestructible than this beast already is. That is the only thing they could do to make the truck even better. Then the would be perfect! What do you all think?View attachment 14209

FatAxles. You made some really good points, plus upgrading the Talion diffs to the Nero diffs would probably make it even more durable than it is now, however the negative would be adding weight and more importantly, more rotation mass and since Arrma has the Talion marketed as a speed truggy, 3 bigger, heavier diffs, especially rotating mass would not benefit what Arrma is trying to do. Also the much larger Nero diffs would take up a lot of valuable space on the Talion's chassis. Hopefully, Arrma's metal geared diffs hold up, especially since they beefed up the diff cases with new webbing, etc. What do you think about Arrma keeping the same size diffs for no extra weight or rotating mass, but using a higher end material such as titanium gears instead of metal gears on Arrma's 1/8 RC's. Titanium gears would obviously add some more expense for the end user, however, the 3 diffs would have unmatched durabilty when running 6S. What do you think?

If I was to ever get another RC, it would probably be a Arrma Nero 6S BLX MT or Nero Big Rock, when a new V2 comes out. However, I also wouldn't mind building another kit, Team Losi Racing's 8IGHT-T E 3.0 truggy kit. Very cool, with an all new chassis specifically balanced for electric power and with multiple battery and ESC locations. However, I may have to sell my Rival MT and my Aall my nitro stuff, including my RTR and Pro nitro truggies to help finance buying 2 more RC's? In the meantime I'm not standing by anymore watching Arrma videos. Since Arrma did a such a great job with the new Talion, I will be supporting them and just ordered my 1st Arrma RC, the new V3 Talion...

The height difference is probably due too the v3 tires are more narrow and taller than the standard truggy tire would be.

The V3 tires being more narrow would not affect the ride height very much, but Flcracker is correct, the V3 Katar tires are taller at 5.75", compared to a standard size truggy tire (Pro-line, etc) which are approx 5.52". I'm not sure about the V1/V2 exact tire size used, but the V3's tires are nearly 1/4" taller than a regular sized truggy tire. This would account for more ground clearance than the V2, as pantag read on Arrma's website, however, I agree, it still doesn't make sense, as the V3 looks lower in the pictures. I gather Arrma specs shown on their website, must have been Arrma measuring the V3 Talion's ground clearance with the suspension raised/adjusted up, compared to the V3 being shipped with the suspension lowered? Arrma sending this out with the suspension lowered makes sense as it needs the stability when making speed runs up to 70mph, as it is marketed as a speed truggy. If you want to bash with the V3 Talion, just raise the suspension a bit and put on a bit bigger tires, as truggies definitely make an excellent offroad basher. However, the new lower shock towers and slightly shorter shocks on the V3 Talion will limit the suspension height adjustment slightly I would expect. Although truggies have less ground clearance than a MT, they have more ground clearance than a buggy and more stability and speed than both, especially when area/track is rough. It's a cross between a MT and a race buggy. It's a buggy on steriods....
 
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A few thoughts on the diffs-

The Nero diffs are bigger, yes, but that moves the center of the axle higher, which makes the dogbone/CVD angle steeper, so that wears out quicker... so you switch to the weaker U-joints that can handle the higher angles, and you get the Nero axle issues... No free lunch.

Titanium gears sounds cool, but Ti is a softer metal. For gears, it is not suitable, as it wears too fast. I do cycling too, and the top end groups use Ti sprockets - they wear out in half / third the mileage as steel sprockets - weight is the only advantage. If you want stronger gears, it would need to be machined gears (like most of the racing kits use) vs the sintered gears that Arrma uses.

Last - proper shimming and maintenance will make the stock gears last for a long time (years), so is this really an issue?
 
A few thoughts on the diffs-

The Nero diffs are bigger, yes, but that moves the center of the axle higher, which makes the dogbone/CVD angle steeper, so that wears out quicker... so you switch to the weaker U-joints that can handle the higher angles, and you get the Nero axle issues... No free lunch.

Titanium gears sounds cool, but Ti is a softer metal. For gears, it is not suitable, as it wears too fast. I do cycling too, and the top end groups use Ti sprockets - they wear out in half / third the mileage as steel sprockets - weight is the only advantage. If you want stronger gears, it would need to be machined gears (like most of the racing kits use) vs the sintered gears that Arrma uses.

Last - proper shimming and maintenance will make the stock gears last for a long time (years), so is this really an issue?

REASONS WHY ARRMA DID NOT USE NERO DIFFS ON THE V3 TALION:
I'm not too familiar with the Nero yet, but it sounds like an excellent point about the steeper angle and the Nero axle issues, besides the extra rotational mass on a RC Arrma has marketed as a speed truggy.

I agree, titanium may not be as hard as "only" the best varieties of heat-treated steel, but it is significantly stronger than the most commonly used grades of steel, and what quality of steel are they using for RC gears? Titanium also has the highest tensile strength-to-density ratio of any metallic element and in unalloyed condition, is 45% lighter, and nearly as strong as the best hardened steel available. Titanium also is a good choice for extremely cold or hot conditions, as it does not break, whereas steel can shatter. Another advantage that titanium has over steel is that it can be flexed or bowed repeatedly, and it is flexible enough it will not rupture like steel. So far in the RC world, titanium is mainly just used for making top quality turnbuckles, hingepins and screws. It is difficult and expensive to manufacture and also reason it is not used as much.

I have also had titanium gears on a high end MTB, and the wear was okay, but it did wear a bit. Titanium was a great choice on bike frames, until carbon fiber took over. However, I have some skates that have titanium blades and when I've had them sharpened, they complained my blades were wearing out their sharpeners too fast. However, I have also heard when using titanium for gears, they will wear quicker and the reason why it is not used for this type of application, I guess.

Let's hope Arrma starts using machined gears (like the racing kits use), but also to use top quality "heat treated" steel (heat treating makes steel harder and not wear as much) and also tempered steel (tempered steel prevents it from becoming brittle and susceptible from breaking. What about the idea of using tungsten carbide in hardened/heat treated steel gears, as this is used for super strong drill bits that cut through hardened steel? Of course proper shimming and maintenance is very important as Jerry-rigged pointed out.

As an and upgraded option, upgrade broken gears or worn diffs, I've heard Team Durango DEX8T (part# TD210057) diffs may work on the Talion?
 
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No question Ti is a great material, it is almost freaky how "next level" it is compared to steel or aluminum in most applications. But, "Most Applications", not all. Plus, I don't think you can sinter Ti, so you are left with machining it - big $$$, for a gear that won't last as long as a good steel gear that would be 1/4 the price.

I am with you on heat treating the diff outdrive cups. Or what ever it takes to help them wear better. I pretty much need to replace all 8 drive cups on both my Arrma's.
 
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